[arm-allstar] timed link disconnect from receiving node

Fri May 17 17:09:11 EDT 2019

Mike,

As I originally commented, the NOAA rebroadcast wording has ambiguity.  
I've already questioned this, gotten an opinion from counsel, argued about
this and the answer was NO.  This was about 7 or 8 years ago.

The exact scenario I questioned was severe WX announcements based on
alerts from the SAME (Specific Area Message Encoding) system.  If an 
automated system responds to SAME alerts, they considered this "regular 
basis" --- since the response happens every time a SAME alert did, even 
though the actual alerts were random.

Anyhow, FCC interpretations change. It's worth investigating again.  
Personally, I have no time in the day to have to answer a cease and
desist letter from the FCC!

Just my $0.02

73, David KB4FXC

On Fri, 17 May 2019, "Mike Besemer via ARM-allstar" wrote:

> Good grief.... there is already an exception!  
> 
> Section 97.113(c) follows 97.113(a), therefore it IS an exception.  And
> 'Regular Basis' is NOT the rebroadcast of weather warnings from NOAA... they
> are most certainly NOT on a regular basis; they are random events.
> Additionally, because hams are often involved in skywarn and storm spotting
> activities, these rebroadcasts can be considered 'life and limb'.  There is
> (or at least was) two different products on the market designed to perform
> this exact function; the CATAUTO WX-200 and the WX250.  I can't speak for
> the rest of you, but I don’t listen to broadcast radio anymore; can't stand
> the constant commercials.  Cell phone service is not reliable enough to be
> counted on to deliver effective warnings; there have been MANY times when
> the only notification of dangerous weather I've received was from the local
> repeater.  
> 
> I spoke with Riley Hollingworth and Laura Smith about this years ago and
> these are the explanations that were given to me.  If someone else got a
> different answer after Laura left, then it's their own damn fault for asking
> the question.  
> 
> Ham radio is self-regulating for the most part, and if it's not explicitly
> forbidden in the rules then it's allowed.  Further, if a ham were to be
> cited by the FCC about this, there is more than enough ambiguity in the
> rules to offer a reasonable explanation. 
> 
> If you go asking the ARRL (who are generally worthless these days) or (God
> forbid) the FCC, you MIGHT get an answer you don’t like.  If you want more
> government in your life, by all means poke the bear - but be prepared to get
> bitten. 
> 
> Mike
> WM4B 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARM-allstar [mailto:arm-allstar-bounces at hamvoip.org] On Behalf Of
> "David McGough via ARM-allstar"
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 2:03 PM
> To: "Lawrence Roney via ARM-allstar"
> Cc: David McGough; Lawrence Roney
> Subject: Re: [arm-allstar] timed link disconnect from receiving node
> 
> 
> 
> Two areas which were pointed out to me by counsel were:
> 
> 97.113(a)(5)
> Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished 
> alternatively through other radio services. 
> 
> 
> .....So, can you receive a NOAA broadcast directly?? This is another radio
> service.  In most areas of the USA, NOAA transmissions on 162.4 thru
> 162.55 MHz blanket the airwaves with good sites, antennas and KW
> transmitters...There are exceptions, however....
> 
> It was also pointed out to me that if NOAA is re-transmitted when storms
> are nearby or expected, that constitutes "a regular basis."
> 
> 
> 97.113(c)
> ..<snip>..Propagation, weather forecasts, and manned spacecraft 
> communications retransmissions may not be conducted on a regular basis, 
> but only occasionally, as an incident of normal amateur radio 
> communications. 
> 
> "may not be conducted on a regular basis" --- see above.
> 
> "as an incident of normal amateur radio communications" ---- like a NOAA 
> receiver is playing in the background when you're talking via a mic over 
> ham radio.
> 
> 
> Anyhow, *PLEASE* do follow up with counsel (like the ARRL general
> counsel). I, too, would like for the FCC stance to be relaxed on NOAA.
> 
> 
> 73, David KB4FXC
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 17 May 2019, "Lawrence Roney via ARM-allstar" wrote:
> 
> > Hopefully, without turning this into a discussion on FCC rules...
> > 
> > After doing research and getting opinions from others on implementing a
> timed disconnect for a WX rebroadcasting node, it appears that
> retransmission of NOAA weather radio is an allowed exception in Part §
> 97.113(c) as long as the original transmission 1) is intended for use by the
> general public, 2) originated from United States Government stations, and 3)
> is only conducted occasionally as an incident of normal amateur radio
> communications.
> > 
> > https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/97.113 
> > 
> > Thanks for everyone's suggestions.  I will pass them along to the owner of
> the WX node.
> > 
> > Lawrence - N6YFN
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > On Fri, 17 May 2019 10:45:07 -0400 (EDT) David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > I know re-transmitting NOAA has been a previously debated grey area of the
> part 97 rules.  I made some noise about this several years ago and found the
> FCC interpretation at that point was that re-transmitting NOAA was not
> allowed.
> > 
> > I recommend that anyone considering NOAA re-transmission should follow up
> and get an expert opinion from council---such as from the ARRL general
> council.....
> > 
> > 
> > 73, David KB4FXC
> > 
> > On Thu, 16 May 2019, "Lawrence Roney via ARM-allstar" wrote:
> > 
> > > We have a club member who was looking to do the same thing with their
> > "weather" node.  The node's audio input comes from a receiver that's tuned
> to the regional NOAA weather broadcast loop.  As a safeguard, they asked me
> if there was a way to force disconnect an incoming call after 3 minutes,
> which is enough time to hear the loop broadcast in its entirety, but then
> drop the link so it could not inadvertently tie up a repeater.
> > > 
> > > Thanks Doug,
> > > 
> > > Lawrence - N6YFN
> > > 
> > <snip>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> 
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