[arm-allstar] Looping problem

Tue May 11 15:14:37 EDT 2021

Looks like this does the trick.

Thanks!

Had to do the manual update.

Before the update we had looping ids between repeater and AllStar node.

After update repeater RF input does not seem to set id timer.

Again thanks for your help!

On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 11:24 AM David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net> wrote:

>
> Hi Don,
>
> I believe the "looping" issue you're describing, below, is now resolved.
> I've put an updated hamvoip-asterisk package in the hamvoip-prerelease
> repository (and the alpha and beta repositories, too).
>
> To install, login to your node and go to a bash prompt. Then:
>
> cd /root
> wget
> https://www2.hamvoip.org/arch/armv7h/hamvoip-prerelease/hamvoip-asterisk-0.1.6.5-26.pkg.tar.xz
> pacman -U hamvoip-asterisk-0.1.6.5-26.pkg.tar.xz
>
> And, restart asterisk.
>
> ...Alternatively, you can update via admin menu option #1, if you've added
> any of the above mentioned repositories to your /etc/pacman.conf
> repository list.
>
> NOTE that this code has an enormous amount of refactoring, under the
> covers. A full changelog is forthcoming.
>
>
> 73, David KB4FXC
>
>
> On Wed, 5 May 2021, Don Rolph wrote:
>
> > We will use an effort link to a repeater.
> >
> > We will set the id timer for the repeater at 10 minutes after a
> transmission.
> >
> > We will set the id timer for the Allstar link at 10 minutes after a
> transmission.
> >
> > A transmission comes  into the repeater.
> >
> > 10 minutes later the repeater ids.
> >
> > 10 minutes later + a bit the Allstar node ids.
> >
> > 10 minutes after the Allstar node ids, the repeater ids.
> >
> > 10 minutes after the repeater ids, the Allstar node ids.
> >
> > And we have an id loop.  I have demonstrated this experimentally (and
> the repeater owner did not get any sleep that night).
> >
> > If this was an EchoLink node, I would set the node to ided at the end of
> a transmission.  Now the id and the transmission trigger the repeater id
> BUT in 10 minutes when the repeater ids, the node stays silent because
> there is no transmission from the node.
> >
> > There is a potential issue with this design as well, but it does not
> trigger the id loops.
> >
> > This is one of a series of repeated help requests in the Allstar rpt
> group.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > > On May 5, 2021, at 11:36 AM, David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Don,
> > >
> > > I'm not understanding your statement about the "id looping behavior is
> an
> > > artifact of the AllStar design decisions" ???  AllStar is inherently a
> > > full-duplex audio system. This is a HUGE, advantageous feature, which
> > > neither IRLP nor echolink provide.
> > >
> > > Further, I'm not understanding how any other software is realistically
> > > going to be superior??  AllStar behavior can easily be adjusted to
> resolve
> > > ping-pong problems.  Repeater hang-times, IDer broadcasts, etc., will
> > > impact any linking system, whether VoIP based or RF.
> > >
> > > As for the place to start, setting up HamVoIP, I would recommend
> initially
> > > setting the rpt.conf node-stanza mode to "duplex = 0" .....Then, in
> the
> > > simpleusb.conf config for the node, set "rxondelay = -250"  ...And,
> > > restart asterisk. This *should* resolve the ping-pong. Then, start
> > > reducing the "rxondelay = -250" to lower delays (like -100) and keep
> > > testing until the ping-pong returns; increasing the delay, at that
> point.
> > >
> > > Note that you can change all the simpleusb settings in REAL TIME, using
> > > the simpleusb-tune-menu program. Use option "m" to adjust the rxondelay
> > > values.  NOTE that the negative rxondelay values are HamVoIP
> specific.
> > > This feature activates the rxondelay only immediately after the AllStar
> > > node's PTT has been asserted.  This reduces the audio chops normally
> > > associated with using the rxondelay parameter.
> > >
> > > Once you've got duplex=0 working successfully, then you can switch to
> > > duplex=1 and add more AllStar features, as desired.
> > >
> > >
> > > 73, David KB4FXC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Wed, 5 May 2021, "Don Rolph via ARM-allstar" wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hmm, the id looping behavior is an artifact of the AllStar design
> decisions.
> > >>
> > >> IRLP and Echolink also face the same design problems AND Echolink has
> > >> adopted a design response which seems to resolve the ID looping issue.
> > >> Is there a reason you would not want to consider design approaches of
> > >> similar software in an effort to address the Allstar id looping issue?
> > >>
> > >> Why would you not look at similar software to see how they address
> similar
> > >> design challenges?
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 9:47 AM "Chris Smart via ARM-allstar" <
> > >> arm-allstar at hamvoip.org> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi don. At present, we're trying to solve a specific problem. Let's
> > >>> leave Echolink to the side for now...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> besides, ever compared the audio between Echolink and Allstar? :)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 2021-05-05 7:34 a.m., "Don Rolph via ARM-allstar" wrote:
> > >>>> Actually easily resolved IF one can ensure that telemetry and id
> only
> > >>>> occurs at the end of an  AllStar/Echolink connection,  This is one
> of the
> > >>>> options in Echolink software, but not present in AllStar, which
> greatly
> > >>>> mitigates this problem.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> A paper study suggests that with an appropriate id interval AND an
> > >>>> appropriate politeid interval, it seems this Echolink software
> behavior
> > >>> can
> > >>>> be approximated, but I need to experiment some more.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 7:21 AM "Patrick Perdue via ARM-allstar" <
> > >>>> arm-allstar at hamvoip.org> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> And also, if you can, use gated PL on the repeater such that only
> PL
> > >>>>> comes through with voice, not telemetry. This way, IDs, hangtime
> and
> > >>>>> repeater tones won't come back across the network. If you can't
> directly
> > >>>>> connect the node to a controller and must use an RF link, this is
> the
> > >>>>> next best thing. Not only will this (hopefully) eliminate
> pingponging,
> > >>>>> it will also make things much more responsive for remote users.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This is a problem I see with many remote echolink connections. No
> gated
> > >>>>> PL, and driven by vox. Makes for a pretty painful experience.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 5/5/2021 6:20 AM, "Don Rolph via ARM-allstar" wrote:
> > >>>>>> Try setting duplex to 0.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If you set duplex to 1, turn off courtesy tones with nounkeyct=1.
> This
> > >>>>>> however results in ping ponging of the 10 minute id of the
> repeater and
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>> AllStar node.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This is a deep nagging problem with using AllStar on a repeater
> link.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 7:45 PM "Mark Richardson via ARM-allstar" <
> > >>>>>> arm-allstar at hamvoip.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I am setting up an AllStar node with the plan to link it to our
> local
> > >>>>>>> repeater by RF.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Everything is working fine if I put the radio on a Simplex
> frequency,
> > >>>>> but
> > >>>>>>> if
> > >>>>>>> I use a Repeater split I get a looping where the radio cycles
> between
> > >>>>>>> transmit and receive and a beep is heard with each cycle. It
> seems to
> > >>>>> begin
> > >>>>>>> the first time the radio transmits and then continues.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I'm hoping someone has encountered something like this before
> and will
> > >>>>> have
> > >>>>>>> some suggestions for me.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I am using a Standard GX3000V radio with a Masters Communications
> > >>> AR-35
> > >>>>>>> interface and a Raspberry PI 3.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Mark Richardson
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> VA3OBO
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ARM-allstar mailing list
> > >>>>>>> ARM-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > >>>>>>> http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Visit the BBB and RPi2/3/4 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ARM-allstar mailing list
> > >>>>> ARM-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > >>>>> http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Visit the BBB and RPi2/3/4 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>
> > >>> ARM-allstar mailing list
> > >>> ARM-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > >>> http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > >>>
> > >>> Visit the BBB and RPi2/3/4 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>

-- 

73,
AB1PH
Don Rolph