[arm-allstar] Why Arduino?

Tue Dec 6 13:31:17 EST 2016

Joshua,

  I am sorry you don't see the value of the design. It is quite minimalist
and adds a great deal of capability to the project.

I might point out that no one said we are abandoning the USB FOB devices
either modified or commercially purchasable. That driver will always be
there.

Also as I pointed out the SW concept behind this allows external hardware
of virtually any type to be used with a properly written driver. You will
not be limited to the Nano or any other device.  So in the very unlikely
possibility the Nano goes away in the future there will be many other
choices.

Having this type of I/O on the Pi itself is messy at best and not very
serviceable. Being able to just pull out a USB cable and plug in another
device that would automatically configure without removing power is far
better in my book.

*73 Doug*

*WA3DSP*

*http://www.crompton.com/hamradio <http://www.crompton.com/hamradio>*

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:12 PM, "Joshua Nulton via arm-allstar" <
arm-allstar at hamvoip.org> wrote:

> I am usually quite reserved with my opinions, however I too am not fond of
> the decision to go with the Arduino board rather than native GPIO ports. I
> do love my Arduino boards and their price. I am not at all afraid of using
> them, and will likely use several of these setups in my node builds, so
> fear of the new is not the issue. I am not a cheap HAM, I spend a ton of
> money on my hobby and don't mind paying premium prices so that is not the
> issue I have either.
>
> The main issue I have is the fact that we are replacing a third party
> peripheral with another third party device. I am fond of the KISS concepts
> and I do not think this is a wise move. Yes it will be stable, fortunately
> for us Doug is a stickler and almost a perfectionist when it comes to his
> system reliability. I have much respect for the ARM development team that
> is giving this to us and while I have nothing negative to say I just think
> this is a step in the wrong direction and we are avoiding the direction
> that SBC lovers want to go, being as minimalistic as possible. I would
> rather see the group take the risk and address whatever issues might arise,
> we will have to do this eventually anyway, why not just take the step and
> knock this obstacle out of the way early on?
>
> I am grateful to the team for what we have thus far and look forward to
> more in the future and a long thriving lifespan of this system. Honestly, I
> would be happy to just hear from the team that they have the goals of
> eliminating the external peripherals as much as possible in the future. As
> the Pi itself evolves I hope they lean in that direction as well (for
> example if it were to get a full ADC/DAC I would hope we might adapt and
> adopt) but it worries me because we are not doing this with what is
> currently available. The reason is due to a relatively low risk of
> something that could or might go astray a little.
>
> On a personal note, I mean no offense to the dev team or Doug himself,
> again thank you all. I only hope that we are not putting our head in the
> sand and avoiding what might be a very streamlined system without rock
> solid reasons. We are trusting in you guys that you are leading us in the
> right direction, and personally I have the faith that you are doing what is
> best at this moment in time.
>
> Much gratitude,
> Joshua   KG5EBI
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 12:00 AM, <arm-allstar-request at hamvoip.org> wrote:
>
> > Send arm-allstar mailing list submissions to
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> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of arm-allstar digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Why Arduino? (Thor Wiegman)
> >    2. Re: Why Arduino? (George Csahanin)
> >    3. Re: Why Arduino? (David Lang)
> >    4. Re: Why Arduino? (George Csahanin)
> >    5. Re: Why Arduino? (Michael Durkin)
> >    6. Re: Why Arduino? (David McGough)
> >    7. Re: Why Arduino? (David McGough)
> >    8. Re: Why Arduino? (David Lang)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 07:17:21 -0800
> > From: Thor Wiegman <n7jct at aplaceonthe.net>
> > To: arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > Subject: [arm-allstar] Why Arduino?
> > Message-ID: <0193236d-1a3b-8f3a-1ec6-1de9c21517df at aplaceonthe.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >
> > The Arduino thing sounds cool but it leaves me with a question:  Why use
> > an external microcontroller for this instead of the Raspberry Pi's GPIO?
> >
> > I've been hacking and slashing on the simpleusb channel driver (I'm not
> > a programmer, what I'm doing is ugly) and had planned just to use the
> > GPIO pins for COR and PTT.  But the Arduino project makes me wonder if
> > I'm missing something.  If its not possible, or not advisable, to use
> > GPIO for this then I'm going to waste a lot of time and feel really
> > stupid.  Again, I'm not a programmer so I'm sure there's something I'm
> > not understanding.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Thor
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 10:21:45 -0500
> > From: George Csahanin <george at dyb.com>
> > To: arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > Subject: Re: [arm-allstar] Why Arduino?
> > Message-ID: <5846D789.6060009 at dyb.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Makes me wonder the same, wish I were a programming guru, so I defer to
> > the upper pay-grades.
> >
> > GeorgeC
> > W2DB
> > 2360 Allstar
> >
> > On 12/06/16 10:17, "Thor Wiegman via arm-allstar" wrote:
> > > The Arduino thing sounds cool but it leaves me with a question:  Why
> > > use an external microcontroller for this instead of the Raspberry Pi's
> > > GPIO?
> > >
> > > I've been hacking and slashing on the simpleusb channel driver (I'm
> > > not a programmer, what I'm doing is ugly) and had planned just to use
> > > the GPIO pins for COR and PTT.  But the Arduino project makes me
> > > wonder if I'm missing something.  If its not possible, or not
> > > advisable, to use GPIO for this then I'm going to waste a lot of time
> > > and feel really stupid.  Again, I'm not a programmer so I'm sure
> > > there's something I'm not understanding.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Thor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > arm-allstar mailing list
> > > arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > > http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > >
> > > Visit the BBB and RPi2/3 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 07:36:38 -0800 (PST)
> > From: David Lang <david at lang.hm>
> > To: "\"Thor Wiegman via arm-allstar\"" <arm-allstar at hamvoip.org>
> > Cc: Thor Wiegman <n7jct at aplaceonthe.net>
> > Subject: Re: [arm-allstar] Why Arduino?
> > Message-ID: <nycvar.QRO.7.75.62.1612060732010.21122 at qynat-yncgbc>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, "Thor Wiegman via arm-allstar" wrote:
> >
> > > The Arduino thing sounds cool but it leaves me with a question:  Why
> use
> > an
> > > external microcontroller for this instead of the Raspberry Pi's GPIO?
> >
> > It boils down to the fact that they are afraid that hooking up to the Pi
> > GPIO
> > pins could fry the Pi if you either wire something wrong or too much RF
> > gets
> > into the wires.
> >
> > The same thing could happen to the Arduino, but if it does, you fry a $3
> > module
> > instead of a $35 module.
> >
> > I'm not sure I agree with their choice, this is either going to work or
> it
> > isn't. If it doesn't, then frying modules will result in unusable systems
> > (albeit slightly cheaper to replace)
> >
> > I'm hoping that once they actually release the code (and this release
> > process is
> > far to much like proprietary software to make me happy), I'm hoping that
> > some
> > people will hack it to support the native GPIO pins instead of requiring
> > the
> > external box/board.
> >
> > David Lang
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 10:42:59 -0500
> > From: George Csahanin <george at dyb.com>
> > To: ARM Allstar <arm-allstar at hamvoip.org>
> > Subject: Re: [arm-allstar] Why Arduino?
> > Message-ID: <5846DC83.10400 at dyb.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > But as for frying the Pi, that's on the user, not the code writer. I
> > have been using the parallel port for ACID for years now, no issues...
> >
> > Well, can still modify CM108 FOBs as well. THERE's REAL opportunity to
> > blow something up...
> >
> > The Arduino isn't a bad thing, the Nano on Ebay is cheap. 10 for $24,
> > etc...
> >
> > GeorgeC
> >
> > On 12/06/16 10:36, "David Lang via arm-allstar" wrote:
> > > On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, "Thor Wiegman via arm-allstar" wrote:
> > >
> > >> The Arduino thing sounds cool but it leaves me with a question:  Why
> > >> use an external microcontroller for this instead of the Raspberry
> > >> Pi's GPIO?
> > >
> > > It boils down to the fact that they are afraid that hooking up to the
> > > Pi GPIO pins could fry the Pi if you either wire something wrong or
> > > too much RF gets into the wires.
> > >
> > > The same thing could happen to the Arduino, but if it does, you fry a
> > > $3 module instead of a $35 module.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure I agree with their choice, this is either going to work
> > > or it isn't. If it doesn't, then frying modules will result in
> > > unusable systems (albeit slightly cheaper to replace)
> > >
> > > I'm hoping that once they actually release the code (and this release
> > > process is far to much like proprietary software to make me happy),
> > > I'm hoping that some people will hack it to support the native GPIO
> > > pins instead of requiring the external box/board.
> > >
> > > David Lang
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > arm-allstar mailing list
> > > arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > > http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > >
> > > Visit the BBB and RPi2/3 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 08:06:54 -0800
> > From: Michael Durkin <kc7noa at gmail.com>
> > To: ARM Allstar <arm-allstar at hamvoip.org>
> > Subject: Re: [arm-allstar] Why Arduino?
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CAC8M0Es0_6265X7x8vz3XOCZM+DOGNRqQXCA=KxT037nYkC+Gg at mail.
> > gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Because not everyone is going to use a Raspberry Pi. I use an Odroid-X2
> as
> > 1/2 of my sdr .... voice, packet & digital.
> >
> > On Dec 6, 2016 7:43 AM, George Csahanin via arm-allstar <
> > arm-allstar at hamvoip.org> wrote:
> >
> > > But as for frying the Pi, that's on the user, not the code writer. I
> have
> > > been using the parallel port for ACID for years now, no issues...
> > >
> > > Well, can still modify CM108 FOBs as well. THERE's REAL opportunity to
> > > blow something up...
> > >
> > > The Arduino isn't a bad thing, the Nano on Ebay is cheap. 10 for $24,
> > > etc...
> > >
> > > GeorgeC
> > >
> > > On 12/06/16 10:36, "David Lang via arm-allstar" wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, "Thor Wiegman via arm-allstar" wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The Arduino thing sounds cool but it leaves me with a question:  Why
> use
> > >>> an external microcontroller for this instead of the Raspberry Pi's
> > GPIO?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> It boils down to the fact that they are afraid that hooking up to the
> Pi
> > >> GPIO pins could fry the Pi if you either wire something wrong or too
> > much
> > >> RF gets into the wires.
> > >>
> > >> The same thing could happen to the Arduino, but if it does, you fry a
> $3
> > >> module instead of a $35 module.
> > >>
> > >> I'm not sure I agree with their choice, this is either going to work
> or
> > >> it isn't. If it doesn't, then frying modules will result in unusable
> > >> systems (albeit slightly cheaper to replace)
> > >>
> > >> I'm hoping that once they actually release the code (and this release
> > >> process is far to much like proprietary software to make me happy),
> I'm
> > >> hoping that some people will hack it to support the native GPIO pins
> > >> instead of requiring the external box/board.
> > >>
> > >> David Lang
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >>
> > >> arm-allstar mailing list
> > >> arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > >> http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > >>
> > >> Visit the BBB and RPi2/3 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > arm-allstar mailing list
> > > arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > > http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > >
> > > Visit the BBB and RPi2/3 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 11:10:31 -0500 (EST)
> > From: David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
> > To: "\"David Lang via arm-allstar\"" <arm-allstar at hamvoip.org>
> > Cc: David Lang <david at lang.hm>, Thor Wiegman <n7jct at aplaceonthe.net>
> > Subject: Re: [arm-allstar] Why Arduino?
> > Message-ID:
> >         <Pine.LNX.4.44.1612061047350.13244-100000 at goliath.inttek.net>
> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> >
> > Hi Guys,
> >
> > The reason for the Nano is simple: The I/O pins on the BBB/RPi/RPi2/RPi3
> > boards are VERY delicate--I know this from personal experience!  Most
> pins
> > on the expansion bus on these boards are directly connected to the
> > SoC (the microprocessor). There is no buffering, no surge protection,
> > nothing. These boards use 3.3V logic, accidentally tie 5V to a GPIO
> > pin--POP! Too much accidental RF nearby--POP! Buy a new RPi3! ...Or, even
> > worse, the RPi2/3 becomes a "walking wounded" ---it's not completely
> dead,
> > it just exhibits sporadic flakiness.
> >
> > Compared to the RPi2/3 I/O bus pins, the USB bus on these boards is
> > extremely robust. Since USB is intended to be connected to user
> > peripherals, the signaling is well protected.
> >
> > Also, some users have mentioned GPIO via the parallel printer port
> > interface found on legacy systems...Well, similar to USB, the PP Port is
> > intended to be connected to user peripherals. It includes VERY robust
> > buffering and surge protection.
> >
> > After over a year of trial, error and discussion, I happened across the
> > Nano boards for another project. The Nano worked so well that I evaluated
> > it as an I/O solution for AllStar. And, if an accidental "oops" does
> > occur, at under 1/10 the cost of a RPi3, they are more than slightly
> > cheaper!
> >
> > 73, David KB4FXC
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, "David Lang via arm-allstar" wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, "Thor Wiegman via arm-allstar" wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Arduino thing sounds cool but it leaves me with a question:  Why
> > use an
> > > > external microcontroller for this instead of the Raspberry Pi's GPIO?
> > >
> > > It boils down to the fact that they are afraid that hooking up to the
> Pi
> > GPIO
> > > pins could fry the Pi if you either wire something wrong or too much RF
> > gets
> > > into the wires.
> > >
> > > The same thing could happen to the Arduino, but if it does, you fry a
> $3
> > module
> > > instead of a $35 module.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure I agree with their choice, this is either going to work or
> > it
> > > isn't. If it doesn't, then frying modules will result in unusable
> systems
> > > (albeit slightly cheaper to replace)
> > >
> > > I'm hoping that once they actually release the code (and this release
> > process is
> > > far to much like proprietary software to make me happy), I'm hoping
> that
> > some
> > > people will hack it to support the native GPIO pins instead of
> requiring
> > the
> > > external box/board.
> > >
> > > David Lang
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > arm-allstar mailing list
> > > arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > > http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > >
> > > Visit the BBB and RPi2/3 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 11:15:21 -0500 (EST)
> > From: David McGough <kb4fxc at inttek.net>
> > To: "\"Michael Durkin via arm-allstar\"" <arm-allstar at hamvoip.org>
> > Subject: Re: [arm-allstar] Why Arduino?
> > Message-ID:
> >         <Pine.LNX.4.44.1612061110490.13244-100000 at goliath.inttek.net>
> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> >
> >
> > And, this is very true as well! ....Using a Nano in technical terms
> > provides an "abstraction layer"....So, you could (in theory) plug a Nano
> > into a PC or the next future SoC board that comes out and it just
> > works---no AllStar driver changes needed at all.
> >
> > 73, David KB4FXC
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, "Michael Durkin via arm-allstar" wrote:
> >
> > > Because not everyone is going to use a Raspberry Pi. I use an Odroid-X2
> > as
> > > 1/2 of my sdr .... voice, packet & digital.
> > >
> > > On Dec 6, 2016 7:43 AM, George Csahanin via arm-allstar <
> > > arm-allstar at hamvoip.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > But as for frying the Pi, that's on the user, not the code writer. I
> > have
> > > > been using the parallel port for ACID for years now, no issues...
> > > >
> > > > Well, can still modify CM108 FOBs as well. THERE's REAL opportunity
> to
> > > > blow something up...
> > > >
> > > > The Arduino isn't a bad thing, the Nano on Ebay is cheap. 10 for $24,
> > > > etc...
> > > >
> > > > GeorgeC
> > > >
> > > > On 12/06/16 10:36, "David Lang via arm-allstar" wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, "Thor Wiegman via arm-allstar" wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> The Arduino thing sounds cool but it leaves me with a question:  Why
> > use
> > > >>> an external microcontroller for this instead of the Raspberry Pi's
> > GPIO?
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> It boils down to the fact that they are afraid that hooking up to
> the
> > Pi
> > > >> GPIO pins could fry the Pi if you either wire something wrong or too
> > much
> > > >> RF gets into the wires.
> > > >>
> > > >> The same thing could happen to the Arduino, but if it does, you fry
> a
> > $3
> > > >> module instead of a $35 module.
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm not sure I agree with their choice, this is either going to work
> > or
> > > >> it isn't. If it doesn't, then frying modules will result in unusable
> > > >> systems (albeit slightly cheaper to replace)
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm hoping that once they actually release the code (and this
> release
> > > >> process is far to much like proprietary software to make me happy),
> > I'm
> > > >> hoping that some people will hack it to support the native GPIO pins
> > > >> instead of requiring the external box/board.
> > > >>
> > > >> David Lang
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >>
> > > >> arm-allstar mailing list
> > > >> arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > > >> http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > > >>
> > > >> Visit the BBB and RPi2/3 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > arm-allstar mailing list
> > > > arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > > > http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > > >
> > > > Visit the BBB and RPi2/3 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > arm-allstar mailing list
> > > arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > > http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> > >
> > > Visit the BBB and RPi2/3 web page - http://hamvoip.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 08:25:54 -0800 (PST)
> > From: David Lang <david at lang.hm>
> > To: "\"David McGough via arm-allstar\"" <arm-allstar at hamvoip.org>
> > Subject: Re: [arm-allstar] Why Arduino?
> > Message-ID: <nycvar.QRO.7.75.62.1612060825020.21122 at qynat-yncgbc>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >
> > nobody objects to having this option, we are just frustrated at not being
> > able
> > to use the direct GPIOs as an option.
> >
> > David Lang
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2016, "David McGough via arm-allstar" wrote:
> >
> > > And, this is very true as well! ....Using a Nano in technical terms
> > > provides an "abstraction layer"....So, you could (in theory) plug a
> Nano
> > > into a PC or the next future SoC board that comes out and it just
> > > works---no AllStar driver changes needed at all.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > arm-allstar mailing list
> > arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> > http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of arm-allstar Digest, Vol 31, Issue 5
> > ******************************************
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
> arm-allstar mailing list
> arm-allstar at hamvoip.org
> http://lists.hamvoip.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/arm-allstar
>
> Visit the BBB and RPi2/3 web page - http://hamvoip.org
>
>